Official Discussion: 5x12 Dead is Dead

[Hollywood Heidi]

5x12 Dead is Dead

Original Air Date: April 8, 2009
Centric: Ben centric
Directed by: Stephen Williams
Written by: Brian K. Vaughan & Elizabeth Sarnoff
Summary: To atone for sins of the past, Ben must attempt to summon the smoke monster in order to be judged. (tv.com)
Trailer:

 

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Discuss the episode! Below are some discussion points to get you started.  Feel free to simply copy and paste and insert your thoughts or write out your thoughts however you like.  Constructive comments make for better and more interesting conversations so feel free to elaborate and explain your thoughts, conclusions, and opinions.  Repeat Viewers, answer these as if watching for the first time or what your original answers would have been when you first watched:

What did you think of the episode?

What expectations or theories did you have that either ended up right or wrong?

Who was your favorite character in this episode and why?  Least favorite?

What scenes or situations did you like best?  Least?

What were some of your favorite quotes?

How do you rate this episode compared to the rest?


Repeat viewers
Be mindful of the first-time viewers and give fair warning of spoiler comments by putting spoiler tags (directions below) or at the very least keep them at the bottom of your post with a big texted SPOILER before it.

[spoiler]spoiler text[/spoiler]
What do you think of the episode now that you've seen the whole series?

Did you find anything new you didn't catch the previous time(s) watching?

[DarkSideCookie]

4 stars!!! I loved this episode for the mere fact of it being a Ben episode lol. But it's still not a 5-star-episode I think. Great though!

To be honest, I've forgotten if we already had found out about Widmore had been an Other or not (too much time between watching!), but in case we hadn't, here you go with: WTF? XD And he had been an asshole already then lol. That kind of an asshole I totally don't like I wanna add.

It was interesting to see how Ben had become an Other and had to do things he actually wasn't willing to do. It showed the difference to the man we already knew and who was going to kill an innocent woman for the mere fact of being Widmore's daughter in just the same episode! I was holding my breath at that scene btw! O.O I so love Desmond and Penny and don't know if I could have forgiven Ben if he had shot one of them or even both. But heh, now we know who had injured him. Totally deserved!

I got teary-eyed when we saw Ben remembering Alex through smokey's eyes... I think she had meant so much more to him than he would admit to himself or at least would have before he realized it was too late. Poor Danielle though...

I really enjoyed all the scenes with Locke! He seems so all-wise, even being one step ahead of the puppetmaster Ben! Can't wait to find out more about the mystery of his "death"!



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Favorite quotes/scenes:

LOCKE: "So this is your old office, huh? I never pictured you leading your people from behind a desk. It seems a little... corporate."

SUN: "He said if I ever wanted to see my husband again, I had to wait here for John Locke."
LAPIDUS: "But considering he's dead, we ain't holding our breath."
BEN: "Well, you might want to look outside."
[Sun looks out the window and sees John Locke, who waves.]

[Hollywood Heidi]

4 stars from me as well!

Really loved getting more of an in depth look at Smokie and his workings!

You wrote about a lot of the stuff I had jotted down while watching! I wasn't as surprised to see that Widmore was an other because in the previous episode, the Others were talking to Richard about an "Eloise" and a "Charles" so I figured they were referring to Widmore. I was surprised previous episode!

I wonder how the Others came about? How did they come to be there? Were they always there? I know Richard doesn't age but apparently, everyone else does.

Good casting on the younger Widmore, by the way. He looks so and sounds so much like the older Widmore!

Freakin' Ben. He's so manipulative! When he was talking to Caesar, putting it in his head to be suspicious of Locke. "What if he was already here?" Lol! If only Caesar knew the truth.

So crazy to see a young Ethan. That casting, however, totally doesn't fit. Young Ethan is kinda a good looking kid and, at the expense of sounding mean, older Ethan is very creepy and unique looking.

We got to see Ben taking Alex! Apparently Charles gave him the order to kill Danielle and her team. Only she and Alex were left. But he couldn't kill the baby. He didn't even kill Danielle. Charles is one evil, heartless, son of a bitch. He just doesn't want any other single person to be living on that island. And it seems he's giving his own orders rather than fully following Jacob. Kinda what Ben ends up doing later on.

Ben cracks me up sometimes. His conversation with Locke when Locke was questioning him about Ben killing him and asking why he didn't just let Locke kill himself like he'd planned to. His flippant comment that he "didn't have time to talk him back into hanging himself" was hilarious and also kinda scary because you know what? I fully believe that Ben has the manipulative skills to have talked Locke into hanging himself.

Ben also lied to Locke's face, saying that he knew the island would bring him back to life. He was so convincing when he said that so I was surprised when he confessed to Sun that he was completely surprised and didn't know how the hell Locke was alive.

I also got teary-eyed when Smokie was giving Ben flashes of his past. Then when Smokie appeared as Alex, telling him to follow Locke's orders. There's definitely something special about Locke's connection to the island. He knows things now. Old Locke always believed but he never had this kind of connection.

Omg, I hope Desmond is okay! I didn't see any blood on his shirt. Could it be that whatever was in the grocery bag managed to deflect the bullet enough? Or did he just fall down too quickly for us to have seen the blood? I hope he's alright. It was great to see them again, though! Love DesPen!