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Post by Hollywood Heidi on Sept 2, 2015 18:58:42 GMT -8
2x03 Orientation  Original Air Date: October 5, 2005
Centric: Locke centric
Directed by: Jack Bender
Written by: Javier Grillo-Marxuach & Craig Wright
Summary: Michael, Sawyer and Jin find themselves prisoners after they encounter what they believe to be a group of Others. At the Hatch, the group learn more about their new surroundings, but are confused at Desmond's reaction when the strange computer equipment is broken. Flashbacks reveal more of Locke's past with the introduction of Helen (guest star Katey Segal) who shakes things up even more with her revealing personality and past. (tv.com)
Trailer:
Discuss the episode! Below are some discussion points to get you started. Feel free to simply copy and paste and insert your thoughts or write out your thoughts however you like. Constructive comments make for better and more interesting conversations so feel free to elaborate and explain your thoughts, conclusions, and opinions. Repeat Viewers, answer these as if watching for the first time or what your original answers would have been when you first watched:What did you think of the episode? What expectations or theories did you have that either ended up right or wrong?Who was your favorite character in this episode and why? Least favorite?What scenes or situations did you like best? Least?What were some of your favorite quotes?How do you rate this episode compared to the rest?Repeat viewers
Be mindful of the first-time viewers and give fair warning of spoiler comments by putting spoiler tags (directions below) or at the very least keep them at the bottom of your post with a big texted SPOILER before it.
[spoiler]spoiler text[/spoiler]
What do you think of the episode now that you've seen the whole series?
Did you find anything new you didn't catch the previous time(s) watching? |
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Post by Hollywood Heidi on Sept 16, 2015 23:29:42 GMT -8
5 out of 5 stars once again! Damn I love this show so much! Great, emotional flashbacks into Locke's past, intrigue and suspense in the hatch. I can't wait to see what happens next!
First off with the Rafties (Michael, Sawyer, Jin), I recognized the big black guy that knocked them out right away! Adewale! Great actor. I'm a huge fan of The Mummy and The Mummy Returns and have seen them a gazillion times and he was Lock-Nah in the second one. It was great to see an actor from one of my favorite movies pop up in my favorite show!
So who are these people that knocked the Rafties out and threw them in that tiger pit? Are they really some of the Others? And omg, Ana Lucia, the chick Jack chatted with at the airport bar and had said she had a seat in the tail section, is alive!! So if those people are Others, why is Ana Lucia working with them? Either she joined up with them or they're not Others at all. And if Ana Lucia survived the crash, did any of the other people from the tail section? We already know there weren't any survivors from the front section... accept for the pilot who didn't last long.
Oh man, Locke's past is so sad! Anthony (his father) is a horrible, horrible human being. I was so surprised when he got into Locke's car and the things he said... I don't know why Locke is so fixated on him. He just needs to walk away but he seems to be obsessed. I guess I can kind of understand on some level. Locke so badly wanted to be wanted and also, he just seems to have this need to understand why this was done to him. He got to ask him "Why?" when Anthony had gotten into his car and it's just simply shocking how heartless and cruel someone has the capability of being. "You needed a father figure. I needed a kidney. Get over it." Wow. I mean... just wow. He's so nonchalant about it. That was enough to make me want to scream at him and cry on Locke's behalf. Then he had to twist the knife and add "Don't come back. You're not wanted." I can see why Locke is so very angry and hurt. Man, I just can't wrap my head around being in his position. But even after that, why does he torture himself by returning again and again? Terry O'Quinn (Locke) is such an amazing actor.
We got to meet the real Helen! Remember in the third episode of season 1 (Walkabout) when he was talking on the phone with a "Helen" and we found out it was one of those dial-a-date numbers where you pay a certain amount of money per minute to talk to someone? And Locke had obviously been talking a lot to this one girl who was pretending to be named Helen? I wonder what went wrong with the real Helen that he had to go and pay someone to pretend to be her. The real Helen seems to be really good for Locke. It seems she also had a difficult past as she talks a lot about wasting 20 years being angry and she's there for Locke, giving him a good kick in the ass when he goes against his promise and goes to loiter outside Anthony's house again. Her speech at the end about not knowing what's going to happen and taking a leap of faith seems to be something Locke really took to heart and adopted as his own philosophy, as we've seen many times on the island. Actually, it seems he's taken it too much to heart. He seems to have too much faith and to wholeheartedly put it into something (in this case, the island).
There is just so much going on in the hatch! It's bursting with new things, information, a gazillion more questions. Like when Kate finally finds her way down from the vents and happens to land in a room full of guns and rifles. Holy crap, that was A LOT of guns and rifles! Where did they all come from and why would a station that supposedly housed only two people at a time need that many guns?
The Orientation film! Lol, I remember having a good laugh at the end of it when Locke says "We're gonna need to watch that again." The expression on his face when he said it was like a wink to the audience. Again, it was the writers knowing their viewers. They know how we love to run back to our DVRs and rewind, pause, and slow motion watch scenes. They knew damn well we'd watch that Orientation film over and over and pick it apart for any little clue! So very many things in that little video!! First of all, it says Swan Station, station 3 of 6. That means that there are, or at one time were, 6 total stations. So there are potentially 5 other stations around that island. Why haven't they come across any of them? Are they all hidden like the hatch or are they all just way further away from where they've traveled? The island seems to be huge and we know they haven't covered that much of it. Dr. Marvin Candle threw out so many names... Dharma Initiative. Gerald and Karen DeGroot. Alvar Hanso. He mentions the Dharma Initiative was researching meteorology, psychology, parapsychology (Walt's weird special abilities seem to have enhanced on the island), zoology (shot of polar bears! Guess we know why there were polar bears on a tropical island!), electromagnetism (that explains the compasses being off and that wall that makes Desmond's fillings hurt, lol).
Dr. Candle mentions that the Swan Station was created to study the electromagnetic fluctuation of the island and due to an "incident", this protocol was created and observed. So it seems there's a reason they enter a code and push that button. Or at least they make it SEEM like there's a reason. But is Jack right? Is this all just some psychological study to see if they can actually get two people to live in a hatch and take shifts over the course of 540 days in entering a code and pushing a button? And what happened to a part of the film? When he warns about not using the computer for anything-- he cuts out. We're assuming he's gonna say for anything other than entering the code. But why would someone remove part of the film? It's too big of a jump to just be a glitch or damage to the film strip. Maybe it was just an edit?
Also, did you notice Dr. Marvin Candle's (the speaker in the Orientation film) left arm? He never moves it and it hangs there unnaturally. Sharp-eyed viewers picked up on the fact that it appears Dr. Marvin Candle has a prosthetic arm and guess what? The writers verified that we were right. So how did he lose his arm and is that even important? Lol, this is Lost. Of course it is! Everything is! And remember, this isn't the first time we've heard of someone losing an arm. I remember right away people started to wonder if there was any connection between Dr. Candle and this Montandt that Danielle mentioned as they were walking through the Dark Territory and she said, "This is where Mondandt lost his arm." The Orientation film showed the copyright date as 1980. Danielle said she and her research team were marooned there 16 years ago. The current year on the show is 2004 so that would mean Danielle and her team arrived in 1988. No, that doesn't work out, so Dr. Candle and Montandt can't be the same person. But did they each lose their arm the same way?
So if this island was used in part for the Dharma Initiative, where are these scientists and researchers now? Are they these wild looking Others we briefly saw and have been hearing about? If so, how did they become that way? If not, then where are they? Was this Dharma Initiative shut down? Moved?
The war between Locke's faith vs. Jack's science seems to be escalating. I think it's just gotten to the point where the survivors have transitioned from strangers to almost family-like. It's easy to roll your eyes and walk away from a stranger but when you're living with a person and they have opposite views, it's going to end up like what we're seeing. They are constantly verbally shoving at each other over their beliefs as if each is trying to push the other onto their side and into their beliefs. Jack is just incredulous that Locke so easily believes this whole button pushing thing. He thinks this whole "world will end if we don't push that button" is impossible and Locke makes a good point when he asks if Desmond knows Jack "because THAT would be impossible." Well, both have a point. Maybe pushing that button every 108 minutes is for a reason. Maybe the world just is small enough and coincidental enough to strand two strangers who randomly met years ago onto the same island. Maybe it's fate. Maybe it's a crazy, random happenstance. But you hear stories all the time about people randomly bumping into other people when they don't expect it. I know my parents have at least once ran into someone they knew when traveling abroad and they each had no idea the other had just so happened to not only take a vacation at the same time, but to choose the same destination. It happens!
And I remember reading somewhere that you've probably walked by someone years ago that you just recently got to know. You just don't know it and never will. We see a lot of that on Lost. So many connections, some they will see (like Desmond and Jack) and some they will probably never learn about (Hurley buying that motorized scooter off the man who happened to be the priest Charlie gave his confession to).
Lol, it was funny to see Hurley in the hatch and you just knew he was gonna freak out when he heard what the code entered happened to be. Oh man, I was on the edge of my seat when that clock started ticking down to the last minute and Locke decided to force Jack into taking a leap of faith by making him be the one to push the button. It's so funny how even though you don't know what's going to happen if you don't push it and even though it's hard to believe anything that bad would happen if you don't, you still panic when that beeping starts up and the clock is running down that last minute and shouting at someone to just enter the numbers and push execute! I can't blame Desmond for sticking by all these years and continuing to push that button. If I was in their place, I would also. I guess it's the fear of the unknown. You know that if you push it, the clock stops beeping at you and nothing happens but if you don't... what's going to happen? This Kelvin guy Desmond mentioned had said they were "saving the world." That seems a bit drastic. A little button saving the world? But the Orientation film talked about an incident and that this protocol was created because of that incident and to also stop it from happening again.
But is this just a study in human nature? Psychology is one of the studies and the film mention B.F. Skinner who was a psychologist and behaviorist who liked to conduct studies on such things. Can you fool people into believing that pushing a button is important? How long until you can get them to do it as a natural part of their lives and how long can you keep them doing it?
If I was there, I would so be pushing that button. I wouldn't have a way to flee if they hadn't been able to fix that computer (I think Desmond running would most likely be futile) and I would be too scared of the possibility of something bad happening. But as a viewer far, far away from this fictional island, I kind of want them to NOT push the button because I so badly want to see what happens!
In the usual Locke manner, he always needs something to fixate and put his whole faith into. It was finding out what was in the hatch and now that that's done, he's found his next mission; to keep pushing that button. He so easily stepped right into Desmond's place and happily announced he'd take the first shift. And like Helen once said, you can't do it alone and simply can't know what's going to happen. It takes a leap of faith. I can't wait to see the expression on some of the other Lostie's faces when they see this hatch for the first time and all the modern technologies it has that I'm sure they've been missing!
Favorite scenes/quotes:
Locke: You want your damned 30 dollars back?! I want my kidney back!
Locke: (after the Orientation film) We're gonna have to watch that again.
Jack: How is it that you didn't know about the crash? About us?
Desmond: I push this button every 108 minutes. I don't get out much.
Jack: Do you ever think that maybe they put you down here to push a button every 100 minutes just to see if you would? That all of this -- the computer, the button -- it's just a mind game?! An experiment?
Desmond: Every -- single -- day.
Locke: No, I can't! -- I don't know how.
Helen: Because you don't know what's going to happen. None of us do. That's why it's called a leap of faith, John. You don't have to be alone.
Locke: Why do you find it so hard to believe?!
Jack: Why do you find it so easy?!
Locke: It's never been easy!
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Post by DarkSideCookie on Sept 22, 2015 9:00:49 GMT -8
Yah, this definitely was a 5! So much emotions, so much new informations and so much awesomeness!  Germany just translated the original title into "Orientierung" this time. Oh, I didn't recognized the big black guy from the Mummy Returns. ^^ Though I've seen that movie of course. Hm I'm still not sure about these people, which knocked the Rafties, are the Others. Actually I don't think so. I think they are a group of other survivors, maybe hiding themselves from the Others, maybe know about them either? Ana Lucia! I recognized her directly and was like "Aww she survived too!". Somehow I liked her in that flashback scene and I bet she isn't one of the "bad guys" now, as I don't think that guys are the bad guys at all. I liked all of Locke flashback scenes! And we met the real Helen from his telephone call later on the timeline! So she was a real person in his life actually. But she didn't know who he was, when they had a call, right? That's sad... And I felt with Locke, when he was sitting in that round on the meeting. While they were talking about stolen money, Locke had lost so much more important - a kidney. I felt so sad looking at his face, when he suddenly spoke up himself, and also when he drove to his father's house to just wait there, maybe even don't know himself why. His father is such an asshole, I wanna kick his ass for what he said to his son! But I wonder, if he REALLY is Locke's father. I mean, couldn't he have only act like that to get a kidney? Or can it be that this man really is that bad? o.o Oh but I was a little angry at Locke, that he didn't care about the promise to Helen. I bet he never really wanted to hold that promise anyway... That Orientation film was wow! I'm so curious about how the story will go on! And wow as for your attention finding any clue, Heidi! Above all the information about lost arms. I never would have noticed that! o.O That's so awesome! Just as the fact it says someone has to enter that code and push that damn button every 108 minutes! 4 - 12 - 15 - 16 - 23 - 42! I already can type them without looking up lol! Are you proud of me, Heidi? (Pshhh... I used them for tomorrow's lottery :>... hope I don't have to read something like "Everybody Hates Ilona" in the cbox soon xD) I loved the word war between faith and science! Still I feel like standing in the middle. Locke's faith is just too heavy and Jack would make good to believe at least a little more.  And so true as for things just happen, Heidi! It's crazy how often it happens you meet people somewhere so overcrowded with people for example. That happens a lot to me recently. Also sometimes I believe in something like fate. Fate and the decisions you make to walk among the way of fate. Well, something like that. Sounds stupid, doesn't it? ^^' Haha when Hurley was down in the hatch and saw Locke typing the wrong number and he was silent, I was like "NO! Hurley, hurry and tell him!" xD Though I really would like to know what happened, when they didn't enter the code... It was pretty mean from Locke to force Jack pushing the button. But I knew he would do in the end. I just knew it. I would have pushed the button either. The fear what could happen if I don't, would kill me! Haha Wow, and now in the end, they have replaced Desmond's position! o.O I wonder what they will do now? Pushing that damn button every 108 minutes? Locke would do I think. ----------------------------------- Favourite quotes:Helen: "I like bald guys." Locke: "I'm not bald." Helen: "I can wait." Locke: (after the Orientation film) "We're gonna have to watch that again." Jack: "How is it that you didn't know about the crash? About us?" Desmond: "I push this button every 108 minutes. I don't get out much." Locke: "Why do you find it so hard to believe?!" Jack: "Why do you find it so easy?!" Locke: "It's never been easy!" |
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Post by Hollywood Heidi on Sept 22, 2015 18:30:10 GMT -8
I liked all of Locke flashback scenes! And we met the real Helen from his telephone call later on the timeline! So she was a real person in his life actually. But she didn't know who he was, when they had a call, right? That's sad... Actually, no, the person he was talking to on the phone was not that Helen. He was calling one of those 900 numbers and the woman had been playing a part over the phone. Remember, she even said "My name's not really Helen" when Locke told her that he'd gotten a ticket for her, too, for the Walkabout. It's kind of one of those numbers people usually call, probably for phone sex, but instead, he used it for companionship and to create this delusion that he was talking to his Helen. He got too caught up in the play acting over the phone with that woman and she had to tell him that he shouldn't call her anymore. It happened afterward, obviously, since he was in a wheelchair at the time. So something happened somewhere down the line that caused Locke and Helen to split. I'm guessing it probably had to do with Locke's horrible father. His father is such an asshole, I wanna kick his ass for what he said to his son! But I wonder, if he REALLY is Locke's father. I mean, couldn't he have only act like that to get a kidney? Or can it be that this man really is that bad? o.o No, he really IS Locke's father. That's why he even bothered getting back in touch with him. He needed a kidney and at his age, he was too far down the donor list and since Locke was his own blood, he would be a match. So he conned him. So very sad.  He's just really like that. He's self centered, cruel, and just a horrible human being. Oh but I was a little angry at Locke, that he didn't care about the promise to Helen. I bet he never really wanted to hold that promise anyway... I know, I wanted to smack him upside the head!! I think he really wanted to keep his promise but he's just got this obsession. I personally can't understand it but knowing Locke, he really gets fixated on things. That Orientation film was wow! I'm so curious about how the story will go on! And wow as for your attention finding any clue, Heidi! Above all the information about lost arms. I never would have noticed that! o.O That's so awesome! Just as the fact it says someone has to enter that code and push that damn button every 108 minutes! 4 - 12 - 15 - 16 - 23 - 42! I already can type them without looking up lol! Are you proud of me, Heidi? (Pshhh... I used them for tomorrow's lottery :>... hope I don't have to read something like "Everybody Hates Ilona" in the cbox soon xD) Lol!! Yay, you're a true Lostie if you know the numbers by heart!! But you have one wrong... it's 8, not 12. 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42.  I'm so proud of you though!! 5 out of 6 is awesome and that's an easy one to just switch out. Lol!!! Everybody Hates Ilona! Lol!! Nah, never! I loved the word war between faith and science! Still I feel like standing in the middle. Locke's faith is just too heavy and Jack would make good to believe at least a little more. And so true as for things just happen, Heidi! It's crazy how often it happens you meet people somewhere so overcrowded with people for example. That happens a lot to me recently. Also sometimes I believe in something like fate. Fate and the decisions you make to walk among the way of fate. Well, something like that. Sounds stupid, doesn't it? ^^' Nah, doesn't sound stupid at all! It totally is just fate. Or a small world. Or crazy, random, happenstance. Whatever it is, it happens! Haha when Hurley was down in the hatch and saw Locke typing the wrong number and he was silent, I was like "NO! Hurley, hurry and tell him!" xD Though I really would like to know what happened, when they didn't enter the code... It was pretty mean from Locke to force Jack pushing the button. But I knew he would do in the end. I just knew it. I would have pushed the button either. The fear what could happen if I don't, would kill me! Haha Wow, and now in the end, they have replaced Desmond's position! o.O I wonder what they will do now? Pushing that damn button every 108 minutes? Locke would do I think. Lol, yup! And Desmond will get a FULL sleep for the first time in... what did he say, three years he's been down there? Well, he wasn't alone the whole time. He had Kelvin but he said Kelvin had died. He didn't mention how long ago so who knows how long he's been down there, pushing that button by himself every 108 minutes, not being able to sleep more than an hour and 40ish minutes. That's enough to drive anyone insane! |
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Post by DarkSideCookie on Sept 25, 2015 9:07:54 GMT -8
Ooops, then I really remembered wrong on that Helen talk on the phone. I thought now, that maybe she was doing not those 900 calls but something like a crisis line on phone (as she had also those group talking about problems with her), and that Locke knew sho she was because of the number, only Helen didn't. Ok but was wrong. Geez, my memories sometimes are so bad. o.O But thanks for telling me! Really, horrible father... I wish I could hug Locke. Oooops!! xD ok then 4 - 8 - 15 - 16 - 23 - 42. Haha that must have been the reason why I didn't won the lottery lol! No... unfortunately it's not. That way I would have guessed at least 5 numbers right... But it's the proof I didn't looked them up before typing here, isn't it? |
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Post by Hollywood Heidi on Oct 3, 2015 14:30:01 GMT -8
Lol! It's okay. My memory isn't the best either. But I've seen season 1 of Lost so many times that I've got all the details memorized! And you did really great with the numbers! I'm sure you have them down now. |
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Germany just translated the original title into "Orientierung" this time.
He's just really like that. He's self centered, cruel, and just a horrible human being.
I'm so proud of you though!! 5 out of 6 is awesome and that's an easy one to just switch out. Lol!!! Everybody Hates Ilona! Lol!! Nah, never!